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Ep 274 Transcript


All right. Welcome to this episode of The joyful scaling Podcast. Today we’re talking about style, and how your wardrobe needs to be a part of your business strategy. Did you know that my guest today is Nicole achi, she is a personal stylist and she’s a personal branding consultant. And Nicole works with ambitious women and she helps them uncover and refine. I love that word, their brand, using their personal style, allowing them to step fully into their visibility and do the work that you are uniquely meant to do in the world. Nicole is the host of the self styled podcast. She’s a mama of a super sweet little, and She hails from New York. Let’s welcome Nicole to the show.



Thank you for having me. I’m delighted to be here.



Awesome. Well, I met Nicole in a mastermind I was in she was a featured speaker. And I said my ladies in my audience need but you’ve got all right. So let’s start here. You say that entrepreneurs need to think of their wardrobe as part of their business strategy. Tell me why that is. And then tell me you know why that’s so important.



So I work with women, I only work with women. And that is primarily because when I started my selling business 12 years ago, I got the opportunity to see women who were very successful in business pretty early in my career. And what I saw was that they struggled with visibility more than the high like the men that were sort of in the same position, same, making the same kind of money, you know, you talk about scaling, you know, scaling businesses. And what I saw very up close, and personally, because you’re in people’s homes, I’m all virtual now, but at the time I was in person is that things like weight, things like age, things, like your shopping, just feeling hard, feeling like you’re just bad at getting dressed, right? Really got in the way of things that women really needed to do to get to the next level. Because as moment many of us know, you can kind of get pretty far now putting yourself out there. But to really get big momentum in your business, you have to show up for it. And being a personal brand, I think in general comes a little bit harder to women, not all women, but I have seen the sort of that struggle be very personalized. And so my goal and my work, and my commitment is to helping more women show up in the world, in leadership and invisibility, so that the world changes. And I actually do think the clothes are part of it. Because if our clothes speak to us and reinforce the image that we need to have of ourselves that we’re building as entrepreneurs, is very powerful as a mindset tool. And when we are convinced other people are convinced and so close are a part of how I think as entrepreneurs, we can tap into the energy of who we want to become on a day to day basis.



So good. There’s so much to unpack there. I had a smile to myself when you said some women feel bad about getting dressed because I think that’s me, like I packed out some poundage, I packed on some poundage, and see you only see the top part, you don’t see my protruding belly, which makes me feel four months pregnant. But maybe I’m slightly exaggerating. But I think this really is gonna resonate with virtually every woman out there, because we’re all our own worst critic, right? So the weight, the age, and the shopping, feeling hard. So I want to go there. But first, I want to really attack this mindset piece. As you work with your clients, and I’m sure these women have reached like you said, it’s a level of success. But it’s almost like they’re not putting themselves out there. And there’s a mindset piece. So how does your work with them, really kind of maybe give them confidence and make them feel powerful enough to go out there and really show up?



So the first piece of it is that when you are not reacting to your life, when you’re not reacting to the fact that Oh, no, I have a speaking event in two days, and I have nothing to wear. And then I’m going to store and I’m panic shopping. And then I see those pictures from that event. And I don’t like how I look. And then I beat myself up and I blame myself, which then makes it harder to get out there again. So it’s what I call the negative visibility cycle. And I’ve seen it over and over again. And I’ve experienced it so I’ve seen this. And the mindset piece is if like anything in a business, like you don’t just launch a website without thinking about the colors and thinking about the logo, we give more time to our websites, and to our blog posts, even then we do to how we are showing up and I want to be clear that my commitment isn’t to women like looking a certain way or in a performative way, but really for themselves like giving it like as a form of taking care of yourself. And and so what happens is that the mind mindset piece comes in by thinking to yourself, Okay, this is a part of my visibility strategy, just like hiring a publicist is just like, you know, any of the other things you would do to set yourself up for success. This is a piece of the strategy. And it the benefit of that thinking is that it depersonalized is getting dressed. And then it’s like when the outfit doesn’t work or whatever. Okay, well, how do we shift our, what’s not working here? How do we shift it? Where does it where do we need it to be? Where do we want it to be? And by learning how to look at your style in this manner, it becomes a skill that you learn, and not something that you should just expect yourself, like, No one beats themselves up for not knowing how to design a website, right? But but we are beat ourselves up for not knowing like how to put an outfit together that that works with our body shape, like those are skills. And that is a very helpful shift. And then the second piece of this that is really, really important, and I don’t think is sort of talked about enough is that what happens in your closet, particularly around visibility happens in your life. And so yes, I’m talking about business. But I have seen very few places that I have seen that where a woman hasn’t sort of discounted her own voice when it comes to her style, because most of them actually do know what they like that she isn’t also discounting herself somewhere else. And, and the level to which women do that varies. But depending on you know, most of us often even know what the right move is in our business. And we think we need an expert to tell us My goal was defining and refining my clients closets is for them to see that there’s something there. And my job is to pull it out of them to validate that it’s acceptable. And then to help them sort of package that in a way that feels authentic to them and translates well, on camera or wherever they are.



So good. So good. Okay, so when you said about you pull it out, I would love to work with you. Because it’s funny is I think I have no style. Like I look at my closet and everything is very bland. Like right now I like this suit, although I don’t know that I could fit into the pants right now. I have shorts on, which is funny if I stood up I have shorts on. But that’s the beauty of virtual but, you know, what do you say to the woman who is like, I don’t even think I have a style? Like how do you even begin to define that for yourself?



So I mean, I have an entire process that we start with, it’s really not about the clothes first, the clothes are actually the easy part. Once you figure out the sort of, and we really great like a visual brand, like what are the colors? What are the silhouettes? What do you feel good about? Because, you know, it’s really about the expression of the energy that you really want to show up with. I mean, in Florida, you have a pretty clear sense of style. And I’m a little surprised to hear you say that. And this is exactly what I mean. That’s exactly what I mean. Like I live if you have a very defined visual brand, right? You wear pearls, you tend to wear like more in the suiting department like I don’t see you in like autumn yoga clothes, you know, which some entrepreneurs were. So I would say that you have a very clear brand. Now, is that brand giving you the energy that you want right now? Maybe not. But is that about? You know, other things, right? Is that about? Well, the pants don’t fit? Well, can we just shift that and buy the pants that fit? Like, I mean, life is really short, like, let’s not do that to ourselves. So it’s really about what you’re making it mean that those parents will fit you. And so that’s why I think that this kind of thing is more my like, 90% mindset and like 10% Close. So when you’re trying to figure out what that style is, sorry, that’s my daughter. She’s just learning to like, make noises is very real life people is very real life. Um, so when you’re when you’re kind of trying to find it with somebody, it’s really about having them if they really feel stuck lives, what they don’t like, because what you don’t like, usually lead you sound like why don’t you like it? And when you start asking these kinds of questions, you start to understand, like, Do you not like something because you’re afraid you’re going to be judged? Do you just not like Green? Do you just, you know, understanding that helps me kind of get to the bottom of it. And you know, I do provide visual examples and stuff like that. But most of us just don’t let ourselves look or play or it’s always so serious, like when we go to the mall, or we go to stores or we order online. Like if something doesn’t fit it like means a whole world of things. And all it means is like Autozone fit. Like that’s not the garment that’s coming home with you. And so yeah, that’s kind of the real place to start is by what you don’t like,



that is so good. And the reason I say that, you know, I don’t know if you know, I’m a twin, and my twin sister. She was the fashion plate and I was the bookworm. And I was the nerd. So, so true. Like about the mindset. I love it. It’s 90% mindset and 10% how you look. And it’s so true. Like I do mindset work and come to business, but I didn’t really thought about it with my clothes.



And here’s the thing, you don’t have a business without you. So, and we know that like, people are like, Oh, I’m journaling, and this is my morning practice and entrepreneur, like, I have nothing against that. I guess I’ve heard that, like, if you’re not getting getting dressed isn’t a part of that, then you don’t really have a mindset practice because you look in the mirror all the time, right? And so you, it’s the best way to manifest who you want to become because you are visually reinforcing it. When you journal, you close it, you go about your day, you may never think about that, again. I understand that writing houses plays. I’m just saying like, this is really what I see is that people live into that the next version of themselves. And sometimes we need help with that, you know, just like in business, but but that’s why I think that’s the mindset piece is so critical.



So good. Oh, my gosh, I knew this would be good. All right. Next question. Gotta go. I could lay on that for a while.



I’m fascinated about you being a twin, like I could talk about that all day.



And you know what’s funny, she’s two inches taller. But I think if she was sitting here, you might be fooled and think that her or she’s made? So



one identical?



No, but very close. But anywho. All right. So listen, most entrepreneurs Wait, and you mentioned it earlier, they wait until it’s like the day before something like a photo shoot, or a talk on stage. I’m actually talking on stage in four hours. So anyway, but why is it that we tend to be reactionary, why is that a mistake? And what do we need to do instead? Because we



are overwhelmed. And I it’s just at at that at this entry level. It’s just cognitive overwhelm. We don’t know where to start we. And I think, really, if you really think about it, it’s because it really matters. So I would assume if you’re going to take to you know, give a talk that if you didn’t feel good in your clothes, when you’re giving that talk, you know, you may feel neutral. But if you don’t feel good, the impact is great, right? Especially if you’re a public speaker. And we know that that matters. And so it’s almost like we’ve become perfectionistic. And so then we avoid it. And then the day comes and we’re like, oh, no, so we panic shop. And this is what I was talking about earlier, this is how we get into that negative visibility cycle. And so that’s one piece of it. And then the second piece of it is that women in general are finding it harder to shop than before, because the majority of clothes are online, if you’re a size 12, or above which statistically most women between like 40 and 60 are. And there are some really great brands out there. For plus eyes and even you know, and even even women that are like 12 to 1416. And what is happening is you’re not accessing them because they’re online, and people don’t realize it. And so there’s there’s really little, there’s nothing in the stores for me. And if there is things in stores, it’s so limited and style. And so it’s really about shifting how you get dressed. And I mean, how you shop is a huge part of the work that I have to do with clients. Because it’s often people are used to going into a store and grabbing something, which is another reason why you have to plan because it’s not the same as it used to be. And if you understand how shopping has evolved and how you need to how you should do it, it’s actually going to be a better experience. Because you’re trying on clothes at home, you don’t have a crappy dressing, reminding. You can mix and match with clothes that you already have in your in your home, while you’re trying on. So you can see like, is this investment worth it? Am I getting a lot of wear out of this? There’s a lot of opportunity if you learn how to shop strategically, but most of us don’t



know. Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I as you’re saying that about going online, I always hesitated to do that. Because I hate returns. I’m the type of person where if I bring something home and it doesn’t fit, it usually hangs in my closet never gets returned. It’s just It’s just I know, it’s silly. But



no, it’s not silly. I hear it a lot. But here’s the thing, it’s like any other thing you do in your bed, you if you say I really think that thinking about this as like a piece of your business, because then it starts to like go into other parts of your life. But this is a starting point for most women, is if you think of it that way, you’re getting it’s an investment you’re making that’s going to have returns every time you get on a stage every time you see those photos when you when you look at them, because we’re seeing ourselves a lot, right as more than like a person with a different kinds of jobs. It’s weird how many photoshoots we have, as part of our career like that. We’re not celebrities, like this is a strange aspect of it that we don’t even stop to think about. But if we were thinking about writing a book or doing something else that was putting our work out there, we would be worried about the cover we would be agonizing about that we would be you know. So it’s interesting that we don’t do that with ourselves. And it’s really a shift I think.



Yeah, yeah. So so how do we even begin I mean, to me, it is overwhelming to go shopping live. But to shop online. Are there any like tips? I mean,



for online Hmm. For online or in person, I can give you a couple for both. So the first thing is if you Top without a list, that’s the same thing as going to the grocery store hungry and expecting like that’s gonna go well. So a big part of it is, is making sure that you’re looking at your closet before you go shopping. This is really why I think a lot of people set themselves up to fail is they just like, I need an outfit they don’t think, Okay, do I have a base of an outfit here? Do I have, you know, do I just need a blazer and we don’t even know where to start. So we walk into the experience online or in person already overwhelmed, you have to give yourself a place to start, if you decide you’re going to do a whole new outfit. Great, what kind of an outfit do I want, you have to start whittling it down so that we are faced with choices, you can say, Okay, I want to dress and go right to the dress section. Or if you’re online, you go right to the dresses. And then you filter by your size. And then you you know, filter by the color or whatever and that kind of thing. But I also think having a strategy, like I have a I have a course that teaches you how to like build out your visual brand for yourself. And it’s basically like a template like, you know, when you go into Canva, and put your, you know, colors and your fonts. And it’s that so that, you know, when I speak on stages, I wear this when I am on you know, and you can obviously change it a little bit. But this is the general colors when I’m you know, on TV, I wear this or if I’m in person with retreats, because a lot of entrepreneurs I work with have that, you know, this is what I’m going for, right? It’s like a couple steps down than what you might see me and a headshot that you know, thinking about like the level of formality and things like that. If you just have a few areas, like formality level, the kind of piece you want, you want to see what do you want to dress, and, and sort of color or print if that’s your thing, knowing those things about yourself, those three things can help you, you know, make the experience easier online or in person. But also, we tend to think that we have to reinvent the wheel all the time, and that creates cognitive overwhelm. But what I think is useful is to remember that your personal brand, and just like all branding, the more you reuse, people see it the more it’s reinforced. So having like in your case is why it was kind of laughing to myself when you said you didn’t have a brand, because you are always wearing pearls. I can’t I mean, it’s such a part of my pants, and I would still know it was you. Yeah,



I mean, I do, I do feel I have a brand. But if you’d see me walking in the street, that’s what I meant. I really don’t have a sale outside of me wearing Sudhi professional garb. Here on Zoom, for example. You just don’t



know how to translate it into other contexts. So this is where Thank you for saying that because this is helpful for people to see. Because I’m sure a lot of people listening are like, Why did your style like what are you talking about? So this is also important that all women think this? This is not the thing we talk about a lot because it often doesn’t come up, but everyone thinks this. So what often we have trouble with is figuring out how do I translate my style in one context to another and it’s formality level. So that’s the kind of piece that when we know that when you feel like okay, what is what is this feeling that I’m going for into you and your example like work or sort of video? Well, I want to come across as polish on someone else’s classic, whatever your words would be, what does that look like for you when you are walking down the street going grocery shopping. And the reason that’s important is because it gives us a sense that our style is ours and it’s cohesive, you can’t just look often at your style and what you can start with your style in one place. But in order for it to feel authentic and to feel aligned, it has to sort of show you need to understand how it works in your whole life. And then it’s usually not that far off people People don’t usually have like wildly wildly different styles. I just don’t know how to translate it.



Okay, awesome. Okay, that’s really good. What about okay silly things now about shopping Okay, yeah. Like what my sister is great at which I don’t feel as well equipped in is accessorizing an outfit as you see here with pearls



on she is daring. Like she’ll wear a necklace and I’ll be like, Oh my gosh, I could never do that. Like it just doesn’t feel good for me but it looks good on other people you know so so what are some tips of even like stretching ourselves in something that we like it and we may look at it and say wow, I just don’t think that’s me. I wish it were but I don’t believe it is so



first you have to figure out what it means to be what is me right like you have to see if you don’t have language around things you can’t fully grasp for them right as human beings that’s how this works. So putting a name on what kind of style you have so that you can say my style is not that is very helpful. Because often we don’t know why that doesn’t feel like us. So I would say new like well why is your sister’s big necklaces because you’re wearing enormous pearls right here so why does what is it about your sister sisters necklaces or style feels risky or out there for you like what is it? Is it because people or draws attention, you know, is it because it? What is it? And then it’s like, okay, well could I do that something some version of that for myself right is wearing a bolder color for you, maybe it’s. So I think it’s important to think about what about that feels not me something about that energy doesn’t feel you feel like holding to you or feel so comfortable. So the other thing I would do, if you are thinking about stretching yourself is buy things or order things, leave the tags on them, I’m not saying wear them out, like go grocery store, but I’m gonna do like wear them around for a few hours in your house. And see if it starts to take down that anxiety around, you know, shopping differently, being different your style, but also remember, we tend to think people are looking at us and noticing us more than they are. So it’s really important to start to have that conversation with ourselves like, Okay, this is my style. And if I did wear it out one day, if people haven’t noticed, what would the impact be like, nobody really cares about our clothes as much as we do. And, and also to really kind of, I think, as women talk our nervous systems down from from the fear of judgment, because that’s really what that is about. And if you wear a bad outfit one day, it really means nothing about you because you get to take that outfit off. So again, this is about the depersonalization. But so much of our style is tied up in our identity, and tied up wanting to feel safe in the world, which is so human and so basic. And if we don’t understand that, those things can really dictate the conversation. So good.



All right, so I’m gonna pick your brain or something I have my outfit chosen for tonight. Okay, what is it? Are there are there some, it’s, it’s a dress that is actually the cover of my podcast. It’s like old print with short sleeves. But I feel really good in it. So I’m gonna wear that. But I’m just curious. So when you are working with a woman, and she’s like, I need to have my stage outfit? Is there some sort of go to parameters that you’d like to stick with?



Yeah, so there’s a few things about stage, it’s really important when you’re a public speaker, this kind of a way that that you get your message out there, whether it be TV or on stages to understand this, the spaces we’re going to be in. And whether it means like having our system do this or something like that. You want to know like hat first, I want to how big that stages? How are you? How are you situated in the in on the platform is you’re in the middle of everybody Are you like a traditional stage situation where everybody’s in front of you, and you’re up there, if that’s the case, you have to remember that depending on how big the space is, like, it’s very hard to for everybody to fully see you. So you want to find a way to ground yourself in a large space. And one of the ways you can do that is with bolder colors, columns of color, even if you’re more neutral person, that’s fine. A white suit or a white dress, like these types of cars, while people are gonna see you from far away is a block of a block of something, right? And so you want to think about that. And then you if you’re if you’re more close up, and you’re kind of doing them you’re doing a meet and greet after something like that, or you’re doing a book signing or stuff like that, I still have a lot of clients for those. The thing that’s really interesting is that we don’t notice this often as entrepreneurs, and especially we have friends that are in business. But when people particularly a potential client come to meet us if they follow us online or follow us in certain spaces. There may be things like in your case, pearls, it might be kind of weird if somebody met you and didn’t have them on. And and so really not everybody has that. So you’re that’s something yours is pretty clear. But to have things you repeat that are small, is really critical to people feeling like when they they meet you in person they know you. And that obviously we tend to hire people who like a no right. So that is where I’m saying like this actually does have business ramifications. And so I would also be thinking about if there is something after we are going to be meeting people trying to have those pieces in place, but making sure that the shapes of your clothes feel good to you and on you because there’s really nothing worse than being on stage and feeling uncomfortable in our clothes.



Yeah, yeah. Wow. So good. All good. Listen, we have to wrap up in just a minute. But is there anything that you wanted to touch on that we didn’t talk about? Yet?



We talked we touched on it really briefly. But the one thing I will say right now that’s been on my mind a lot is, is that if you are somebody holding yourself back because of weight? Often this is a COVID conversation, right? But the likelihood is, is that if that’s most women didn’t have great relationships with their body image before COVID. So it COVID didn’t invent this problem. And it’s important for us to remember that, that you that there is a real cost to you not showing up because people need you and people need what you do and no potential client knows about those extra 10 pounds and even if they did, they do not care. They care about your results. And even more so it is an opportunity to be an example to other women in the world. That this shouldn’t be the thing was dominating us. I’m not saying it’s easy. I’m not saying that is it’s something that we need to just forget, forget about or pretend doesn’t bother us. But it gets easier before you show up. So please keep showing up, even if it does feel a little bit hot right now.



Wow, such great advice. Thank you for that. All right, well, you have something special to offer our listeners. So tell us about that.



Yeah, I would love to invite you to join the Edit, which is my monthly shopping guide. I don’t call it a newsletter. I don’t love newsletter, I feel like cool second newsletter. And it’s really what I do each each sort of month is give you a style lesson. So how to use proportions, how to use color, how, and it is all pretty much focused on visibility. So stuff like you just ask you about stage and then I give you shopping links to try it out on your own. And I include all sizes petite, tall plus. So there’s something for everybody. So I’d love for you to join me in that space. It’s my favorite place to be



beautiful. I will have the link to that. And where can the ladies find you online? Where do you like to hang out?



I’m mostly I’m on Instagram. So it’s just add in the My name Nicole. Archie, all one.



All right. Well, Nicole, thank you so much for sharing your genius. And I just love how like, here we are talking about clothing, and it’s cerebral. And it’s absolutely vital to really take our businesses to that next level. So thank you so much for sharing all of your genius. Thank you for having me. All right, ladies, thank you for listening. And if you’ve enjoyed this episode, and I’m sure you have, please feel free to go to my website and leave me a voice note Judy Scroll down a bit. You will see where you can do exactly that. I want to feature you on my next episode. So go ahead and do that. Finally, if you have not yet left a rating and a review, please do that as well. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next time.


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