Ladies, welcome to this episode of The joyful scaling podcast. I am here with a woman who I highly respect her name is Deb O’Shea. And I love saying your name. You know, I’m a Francophile. I just do it
Love little J. Anyway, Deb is a CEO and founder of the great do over and the podcast called Life After corporate. And so she works with women in corporate as they transition into business. So here’s the thing I want to say right up front. Deb and I are kind of sort of competitors. But you see, we are very different. I mean, she’s unique, I’m unique. And I never run away from that. And I have to say, my coach told me I’m nuts to interview people who are just like, Nope, I’m doing me, me. And I have no fear about it. And I’m so excited to introduce you to our audience. So let’s say hello to Dev.
Oh, thank you so much, Judy. And I’m right there with you. You know, I’m not about competition. I think we all have something to offer. We can all learn from each other. And I’m so excited to share with you and share the stage
with you. Beautiful, beautiful and welcome. So I, you and I talked, we were in a mastermind together. And we had shared with him I have kind of followed you since I came into the online space many moons ago. Because I really love your style. You are very professional. And you know, there’s a lot of business coaches out there. They’re like 20 Something you’re like, what what do you know, what could you possibly bring to the table, it’s kind of funny. But I’d love just briefly your story of how you came to be a coach for corporate women. It
was never in my wildest dreams did I think about being an entrepreneur or being a coach, you know, so I grew up at a time when I think my father and mother were a product of the Depression. And it was all about, you know, working hard and striving and doing the best you can, and not doing a half baked job, I just cleaned up what my dad used to say, don’t do a half baked job. And so I I just, you know, kept on doing more and doing more and doing more in the corporate world. But I, I kept doing more because I didn’t have self esteem. And so it was by the doing and the acknowledgement of the doing and succeeding that I got, I got my esteem. And so that makes me a great corporate worker, because I’m always looking for approval and to succeed. And so in my time, I actually I have a degree in special education and elementary education. But I entered the corporate world because that’s what was happening at that time. And I kept taking on bigger and bigger assignments and long behold, you know, 20 years later, I was two levels below the CEO making a lot of money. And felt completely burnt out and started questioning is this is this all there is, you know, if this is all there is then I want out?
Yeah, yeah. So how far back is that when you had this moment of wow, this is like this is crazy. I’m burned out. So I love the corporate world
10 years ago, at the same time, my marriage of 25 years was dissolving and my mother’s dementia was increasing. And truthfully menopause. It hit me like a ton of bricks. So I had this, this whole Trifecta going on in my life with health and emotions and burnout. And I just started seeking, you know, what’s next. But I was experiencing the burnout, I think for a couple years. But being the primary wage earner in my family having a middle school age son, it was I never really considered the idea of doing anything different. Mm
hmm. Interesting. Okay, so how did you make that leap? Did you? Did you get your business started before you jumped ship? Or how did that how did that happen?
No, I really lost connection with myself and I had gone on a 10 day silent meditation retreat to kind of reconnect and I was looking for guidance. And what happened on that retreat was that I just received this message that I was I, I had gone through a transformation. I had hired a health coach, I changed up my nutrition. I started exercising. I just started to care for myself, I think for the first time in my life, and I want to help other women understand that they were important to you know, I think when you’re in a narcissistic marriage, and you’re not really seen you’re not important. And when when I grew up in the environment that I was in, I wasn’t really seen and wasn’t that important in my family. And then in the corporate world. I wasn’t that important because I was a female right employee and so less expectations even know I was working really hard. It was harder to get those as opportunities, and so I wanted to, I wanted to take a break, I want to recalibrate and go through this next chapter on my terms.
I love that I love that. And I was involved in a narcissistic relationship. And the more that I speak to women, most women have either been involved in a bad relationship like that some like to that extreme narcissism, or they have been like, actually be, and that was me to two different men. But in any event, yeah, so it amazing that there’s strong women, we are strong women, we are strong women, and we’re smart, but there was a time and there may still be for anyone listening that may find themselves in that spot. And they’re like, Okay, wow, I know, I need to get out. But how can I get out? Do you want to just drop any nuggets of wisdom for that woman?
Yeah, it’s number one. It’s, it’s understanding that where you are, where you are, is not sustainable any longer. And I think once we acknowledge that internal gut feel of dissatisfaction or this is not right, right. So if you’re in a bad relationship, this is not right. You know, when I was in the corporate world, and I was so successful, and yet, you know, my male boss would say, Oh, we’re gonna put you on another performance improvement plan. You know, it was just like, at one point, I looked at him and said, you know, what, at 55 years old fear is no longer a motivator for me. So we’ll have to have a different conversation, you know, just that of coming into your own. And I don’t know, maybe it takes five decades on this planet, to say, you know, no, this is not right. This is not more, this is not what I want. There is more for me. And so I feel like I was a slow learner, I was a late bloomer, but so grateful to be able to be here now and sharing this journey with you.
Yeah, for sure. I love that. And there’s more for me, I think that that is something that God puts in us. So like, until, until we’re walking in His purpose, we’re going to always feel like, Oh, this is great. This may be great. But it’s not the first grade as it is other people would be looking at me like, Hey, I’ve made it but something inside just is, you know, off. So that’s so great. All right. So let’s talk about what you do in your work with women coming into maybe that spot, and they’re like, You know what, it’s time for me to do my own thing and be my own boss. Yeah, and
I think for more and more women, they’re coming to the terms with, you know, there is more for them. You know, for me, I consider this a divine assignment that God has given me, and connecting with women who also feel unsatisfied, and who have some serious skills they’ve been in the corporate world for, for 20 or 30 years, or even 10 years. But they, they see a new path, but they don’t know how to capitalize it, they don’t know how to take their skills and their expertise as a consultant, or an executive or leadership coach, and actually turn that into a business model and how to monetize that, and, and how to get out of their own way. I think psychologically, too, there’s so much about entrepreneurship that kicks up all your stuff. So whatever, whatever limiting beliefs that you brought into this world just kind of get louder and more amplified and being able to face things like fear, doubt, confusion, perfectionism, procrastination, all of those signals that, you know, kind of you’re, you’re out of alignment and need to reset. So I think fear is a big part of it. And also, I don’t know how, you know, they they think I don’t know how to launch a business. I don’t know how to price package my services. I don’t know how to go out there and get new clients.
Yeah, yeah. So do you have a methodology, a framework for doing that? I think you do. Right? Would you mind sharing that with our listeners, because it’s really I know, you’ll agree with me. If you can make it to the middle or senior management level in corporate, you can do entrepreneurship, like you’ve got, you’ve got the brains, you just may not know it.
Yeah. 1,000%. You know, and I think the, the fake promise of entrepreneurship is if I build a website, and I incorporate my LLC and I, I put out a fancy logo, you know, I’ll build it and they will come and they don’t. And there’s a lot of competition out there. I think consulting right now is a $64 billion. Industry coaching is a $16 billion dollar industry with a great resignation. That’s just increasing dramatically of people deciding, I have agency over over my life, my career, I want to do it on my terms. And so we are Um, we are seeing a really crowded channel. So my, my formula was the same that I created in the corporate world, funnily enough, which is I was in product development, product management, product marketing for a Technology Advisory Services Company. So I created services for a living I was, it was my job to uncover the gap in the market. What’s that problem that no one else is solving, or no one is solving well? And what would the solution look like to our clients? And if we created that solution, what would the value be of that to them? What could we charge for that? And what would be the overall value proposition so I actually develop products with my clients, and then they were the first to buy them. And we were able to charge really twice as much as the competition because we weren’t sitting in a container making up ideas of things we could possibly sell, we were actually in client development mode, creating solutions that people want to buy. And I think the travesty of the coaching industry right now is there’s a lot of cookie cutter, you know, oh, here’s my formula, or here’s my framework, if you just do what I do, you will be successful. When the opportunity is well, what’s the problem? What is the problem that people can’t solve? And what looks like a solution to them, and what would be the value of that to them. That’s the development methodology. And that’s how you stand out in a crowded market. And you can create something that enables you to be a star. I mean, I’m, I’m like, thrilled that you even knew about me, before conversation, like you’ve been following me for years, I want to say really duty.
That’s so amazing. And that’s so great. I love what you’ve just emphasized, it’s as easy as you listen to podcast. So you know, and we’ve talked this brain is holds everything you need. And it’s funny how that same brain is what stands between you, and this amazing future that you dream of ladies out there, you’re listening. And you’re like, I’ve had this dream. For me. I always love movies that showed women in their power suits and their heels. And I just love I’m five, eight. So with my heels, I was a lot taller than most men. So I love that that was like a power thing. So even as a little girl, I’m like, Oh, that would be so awesome. But somehow through the years, all that excitement becomes less and less, it appears less and less as a reality or even a possibility. And so what I found in all my years of entrepreneurship, and I know you’ll agree with me is this is the brain that stands in the way. But it’s it’s it’s funny, it’s the same brain that has all the answers, if you would only trust that and go to God and say, Lord, help me to, like, reveal to me what I already know. And to stop being confused. Do you agree?
That was the biggest blessing. And truthfully, that is the path that I’ve walked probably only the last three years, learning to trust and to have faith. And three years ago, I can remember looking because I’m a single mom, right. And I had a kid in college, you know, I live in a beautiful community, it’s costly to live here, I would outline I would make lists of all the revenue that I would need to come in in order to satisfy all of my expenses. And I started practicing turning that over to God and saying, Okay, I’m going to trust, I’m not going to worry, I’ll just show up every day, I’ll do my assignment. I’ll do what I’m here to do. And I’ll trust. And it just it was inevitable that there was always abundance, there was always enough. And so then I said, Okay, God, you’re my CEO. I will just follow instructions. And what happened last week was truly extraordinary. You know, fast forward three years, I have this much stronger, this very connected relationship with God, a daily conversation. And it was the first time that I was doing something called a live launch, which is, you know, is going live five days in a row. And normally, that would make me a little bit nervous, being in the room with not a whole lot of people that I know. And but the faith was so strong and the faith was there. And the conversation with God was there every morning and I was receiving the information that I was going to share that day. And just there was no stress. There was no I got out of my own way. And I think God this is what we need to learn to do. This is what God wants us to do is let him take control and we get out of the way and then everything works like so beautifully. Like I could never have imagined the results that that were experienced. Same from that week of just trust. So now it’s been a journey of faith and trust and faith and trust and faith and trust. And then you don’t have to worry.
Yeah, yeah. So good. I mean, faith. That’s what everybody needs to succeed, whether in business or life, and some people call it belief. Some people call it intuition. But it’s, but for me, it’s faith in Christ and who he says I am. Because, again, the things of life knock us around. And like you mentioned earlier, the lack of confidence, lower self esteem, just feeling beaten up. But we’ve got to take off those lies of the enemy to say, Okay, God, really, who am I? That’s my past. I’m moving forward. Tell me who I am. Tell me what my marching orders are for you. Right? What are you telling me to do? What is my purpose before you, and then everything’s good. Another thing I want to hit on is that I found that, to your point about the cookie cutter, you know, oh, we have formulas for this and formulas for that. But what I’m finding is, when we surrender all of our doubts and fears and insecurities to Him, and He reveals to us kind of who we really are, like, then we can speak our own message. And like you said, The words just flow. And so then when we’re 1,000%, of who we are, all of a sudden, we’re using different words, all of a sudden, we’re coming with a different energy. And it’s, it’s almost palpable. So I’d love to hear kind of your response, you know, to that idea that the messaging in this competitive market is what needs to be different. And the only way that’s really going to cut through is when we speak our message that God gave us in that unique way.
Amen. Really, it’s, it’s, again, it’s just getting out of your own way. It’s like releasing the overthinking, releasing the doubt, the confusion, I don’t know what to say, I don’t know what I’m talking about, you know, sometimes there’s, there’s like two of you showing up to a conversation, the you that’s present, and then the you that’s judging, you know, the present you and so you can’t possibly be present, because there’s this duality in this conversation. You’re not just being in alignment with your True Self. But I also say that this journey, of being able to see yourself through God’s eyes, it’s like cracking open your heart, a little bit at a time and letting the light in. Because sometimes, Judy, when we’ve had a beat up kind of life, the light is a little overwhelming. And so I think this path for me has been cracking it open bits and bits at a time and being able to see myself through God’s eyes and seeing myself through that powerful light. with all humility, you know, because I really, it does surprise me when people say, Oh, my God, you’re you just changed my life. And, you know, I’ve been following you forever. It’s just like, Oh, really? I mean, there is a humility involved. It’s just like, I feel like a rock star up on stage. I’m just doing my job.
Yeah. I love that. I love that. So how do you specifically take your clients from that journey of overwhelm overthinking, and kind of indecision to a place of power CEO, you know, to really get all the things in place to launch that business?
Yeah, because it’s not about you. It’s not about you, it’s all about your client. So the easiest first step in the journey is to say it’s not about you. You don’t have to have all the answers. You don’t have to know anything. Let’s just be curious. And so as long as you’re a good listener, and you’re willing to ask powerful questions, and listen deeply and and go with your intuition, and that those conversations, your clients will tell you exactly what they need. And the product development process isn’t about following someone else’s cookie cutter formula, as you say, it’s about creating something custom and bespoke, but what, what you’ll understand is if you have enough conversations with people who would be ideal clients for you, you’ll spot the patterns. Just like there’s so much similarity in your story in my story, Judy, you know, we’re we are part of the human condition. And no matter what your your client is going through what kind of problem you solve for them, you will find patterns and being able to recognize those patterns and recognize the patterns in the solutions enables you to identify the problem. You have your clients language, you can speak it back to them and they will automatically recognize that you understand them. And then you package a solution that gets them from where they are to where they want to be. And it’s a step by step fashion that’s easy to digest, easy to understand, and you’re not for following anyone else’s formula. You’ve just created your own methodology.
Yes, and that’s the See, that’s the thing that’s missing. There is, you know, in the coaching world, for example, oh, there seems to be one on one, or there’s this group concept. And I, I’ve created something different in the mastermind, and I’m in the works of creating something different for those not quite as six figures, but more in the earlier stages. And I, I’ve always been unconventional. And so I love what you’ve just said about methodology. That’s my joyful scaling method. That is something that I still remember the day God downloaded those three simple steps to scaling to me, and he’s working with me on you know, this other thing, but it’s amazing what happens when we decide. And I want to talk about just a moment, it’s a decision, we decide whether we’re going to be overwhelmed or not, we decide and it can be that easy. We overcomplicate it, but if we decide, I know what to do, I’m going to put my brain to work, and just brain dump, and then figure it out as I go, as opposed to the decision of, you know, entrepreneurship will be kind of fun, but I am going to stay here because it’s safe. when really it’s not safe at all. We’re like, one minute, one minute from a pink slip away, right?
Yeah, yeah, there’s there’s nothing that’s that’s safer or shored in this world. I think, especially currently, you know, you can be going to work going to the gym. Next day, that could be Baum’s raining down on your city, you know, there’s, there’s no assurance of tomorrow. So I think, living your life in alignment with the values that you hold most dear, and having the courage is different than confidence. So courage is the ability to take steps towards something that you can’t see. And that’s where the trust and the faith comes in. So, you know, walking in faith is a courageous journey. And then the confidence comes from what Brene Brown calls those FFTs those effing first times, when you’re trying something for the very first time, and you don’t know what you’re doing, and you feel a little bit insecure about it, but hey, you lived through it. And now you know, something, now you have a new skill. That’s how I feel about last week, I was like, Oh, wow, that was fun. It was cool. Now I have this new thing that I can feel confident about the next time I go and do it.
Yeah, I, the more I lean on the Lord God, the funner My business is and the less stress and you’re nodding your head. So you agree. I mean, so ladies, if your business is a drag, or if what you’re doing in corporate is a drag, and you’ve been saying, oh my goodness, maybe I should but I’m not sure. Look, when you do it, right? Yes, it’s scary. But it becomes fun, because you know, that God’s got your back, he’s got you this far. And if you’re on mission, and this is truly where you’re called, he’s gonna make sure you succeed.
Absolutely. And, you know, paying attention to the people who resonate in your life as well. I mean, I think choosing my my business coach every year has been one of my most precious decisions, and just saying, staying open to, you know, show me what I show me what I need to know, and sometimes I’ll veer off the wrong path, you know, I’ll, I’ll buy into someone’s sales pitch and, and think, oh, I need more of that. And it’s just like, No, I really didn’t need more of that I need someone who’s really, in alignment of my philosophy of, you know, every one is different, everyone is unique, and I’m here to develop my unique value in the world. So that’s why we don’t feel competitive with each other. It’s like you have unique value, people are gonna choose to work with you, or, and they’re gonna choose to work with me, and maybe some people will work with both of us. You know what I mean?
Yeah, though, it’s, yeah. And it’s, I still fear and it’s no worry. And so it’s funny when I invested so heavily in my coach. So for her to say that I almost not judgment in a bad way. But I’m discerning and I’m thinking, You know what, wow. Like, that’s just a different way to do business. I come from a place of full confidence in the Lord confidence in my calling, and this idea of true abundance that’s mentioned in John 1010. So you know, I will always support you, Deb, and I know that you will always support me. And to me, that is a beautiful thing, because when I was in law, and when I was in corporate, that wasn’t happening, at least back in the day, there was a lot of oh, gosh, there was a lot of like, I don’t know, what do they call that Doggy Dog kind of thing? And I felt Wait a minute, we’re sisters. What are you doing?
Ya know, throwing each other under the bus? Yeah, absolutely. Because the pressure was so intense to not be wrong. You know, no one wants to take a fall because you fall fall hard and you fall fast and the corporate world. And so here, it’s, and I loved your recent podcast too, about, you know, taking a break every, you know, 15 minutes. So right before this interview, I was like, I’m gonna follow Judy’s advice, I’m gonna take a 10 minute break, we’ll walk outside, and we’re gonna get some fresh air, and then come back to this interview refresh. And, truthfully, you know, even a couple years ago, when I started amping up the volume on my visibility, because that’s where I was being called to. And having people say, Oh, my God, you must be working all the time. I’m seeing you everywhere. I was like, actually, I’m working less. And I’m making twice as much money as I did last year.
Yep. It’s, it’s a beautiful thing. That’s the fun part, when you realize it’s not about the doing, like you and I both produce every week longer term content. And we have somebody in the background that slices and dices, and puts it out. So it looks like we’re constantly on the computer, I avoid social media, I am not on it much. It’s just that’s such a beautiful freedom. So women, if you are listening to my voice, and you are still in corporate, and you’re scared, but you’re excited, listen, you’re listening to two women who were in held high power positions. And you’re as smart as we are. And if we did it, and we did, you can, too. So any last nugget of advice for that those for the women listening who are either in the beginning, or not quite launched yet, what would be your best advice
is get support early on, you know, find someone you can trust, it’s the first thing I did was enroll in a year long program with a colleague of mine who I trusted and who really did help me build that foundational foundational business sense because even know you’re accomplished in the corporate world, this is an entirely different animal, you know, you’re walking into an online marketing space, you’re walking into a noisy channel, you need to really dial in your differentiation, you need to spend the time and incubate and connect with what is that unique calling that is uniquely yours. You need to spend time listening to your your clients. And if you can’t do that, like I jumped all in. So I had the funds to be able to just say, Hey, this is my last day at work. And then tomorrow, I’m an entrepreneur, and I’m an entrepreneur full time. If you don’t have that luxury, if you don’t have that, that financial freedom, then start figuring it out on the side, follow. heed the call, listen to your ideal clients carve out that differentiated value proposition, what is it that you’re going to deliver that no one else is or in a way that no one else has up until now. And then be sure that you have the funds to get the support because where I see more and more women struggle from corporate to entrepreneurship is they don’t understand that they’re going to need support along the way. And so budget for that, expect that start looking for your coach now. So that when you do decide to make that transition from corporate entrepreneurship, you have someone that you’re you’re going to work with to help you get there faster.
Yes, totally agree with that, ladies, you’ve got to invest. And but you got to be discerning in your investing. Choose the right coach will save you time save you dollars along the way. And you know, the fact of the matter is, if you’ve never done entrepreneurship, you do not know what you do not know. So it the investment, the money I spent early on, came back and I can’t even tell you, it’s still going right now. It’s probably at 1010 times or maybe even more, but so worth it. All right. Before we get off, Deb, where can our audience find you online?
Yeah, the best way to find me is really on LinkedIn. Deb launch a, the podcast is called Life After corporate. And that’s on all podcast platforms. There’s a LinkedIn newsletter called Life After corporate. So go find me there. And I do have a pricing calculator, which helps you figure out your your pricing value. And if people would like that they can just DM me on LinkedIn and say I’d love that pricing calculator and I’ll be happy to send along.
Okay, beautiful. Deb, thank you so much for being here. This has been so much fun. I knew it would be I really appreciate it.
Judy, you’re so gracious. I really love hanging out with you.
Thank you Dev. Alright ladies, listen, if you have gotten value from this episode, and I’m sure you did, and if you haven’t yet taken the time to leave a rating and review would you please consider doing that today? It means so much. We recently were ranked in the top four of Christian women podcasts and 14 of Christian business podcasts but I Want to keep on going so thank you in advance for taking a moment and leaving a review let us know how we can serve you better God bless you and we’ll see you next time