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Ep 257 Transcript


Welcome to this episode of The joyful scaling podcast. This time we’re talking about PR and purpose and a bunch of other fun things. I’m here with Lorraine shoe shoe shark. Oh darn, I’m probably got that wrong shoe Clark. She is a disruptive grand strategist and award winning writer and national speaker. She is the host of the PROSPER podcast which you have to listen to if you haven’t already. And her business, also called prosper for purpose is a PR branding development and digital marketing agency that helps purpose driven changemakers like you build brands that impact the world and their bottom line, her company holds the prestigious B Corp certification, which if you’re not familiar, that means that they meet the highest standards of verified social and environmental performance, public transparency, we all love transparency and legal accountability. I met Lorraine in a mastermind we’re both part of and she is equal parts beautiful woman of God and savvy CEO, you’re gonna love her. So let’s welcome Lorraine to the show.



Hi, there, I’m so excited to be with you, you have such a beautiful energy. And when I interviewed you for my podcast a couple of weeks ago, I just felt like we could have just kept talking all day. It was great. So I’m really honored and excited to be here with you today.



Ah, that’s so neat. Thank you. And I we really do have nice chemistry here. Well, you know, we’re of like mine. So that happens. Right? Well, let’s start, we have a bunch of really great questions around PR and your work. But I want to start here. You know, you say that you work with value driven. People like purpose driven people, and they want to serve value driven consumers. So what are the best ways for companies to really connect with their buyers?



Yeah, so to me, it all starts by being clear on what your brand purpose is. And I stress brand, because there’s kind of three levels of what people think of as purpose. And so the first one is your passion. So you might make a list of 20 things that you’re passionate about, but they’re not really your purpose. Purpose comes from your, your personal sense of what you were put here by God to do for, you know, for me, uh, specifically, from the time I was a little girl, I felt this calling to make the world a better place. But I was always writing and you know, of course, as a kid, you never associate the different things that you feel you have to do. But purpose is kind of like that, it’s what do you have to do, you can have different, you can have a few different personal purposes. So, you know, from the time I was young, also, I knew that one of my, my core purposes was to have children, I just felt like that was really part of a plan. And I remember being a little girl of like 10 and 11. And there was a family that sat in front of us in church each week. And their little one that would be held by mum or dad, dad would always reach for me and want to come to me and I remember the parents saying we don’t know what his fascination is with you. But I kind of I always drew children to me, because I love them. And I couldn’t wait to be a month. Now brands purpose is your WHY for your business. It’s what your business exists to do. And we when we work with clients, we say what is the change you seek? A lot of us start businesses because they realize that there is a big gap in the market bore, they don’t like what they’re seeing, right. And so, you know, you and I have talked about there isn’t just one road to success. There may be things that are really bothering your listeners about their market. And so your purpose comes from the change you seek to make with your business and through your business. And that is different than your vision and your mission. But we can talk about that later.



No, that is so good. Well, actually, can we do that now? Like Like, I never, I don’t know, I love the way you broke that down even personal purpose to brand purpose because I always knew I was gonna be a mom or hope that I would be I guess. And it is a purpose. It was just kind of like a given. So you’re right, though. I mean, it’s because God put it in us and said, okay,



yeah. And if someone said you couldn’t be a mom that you could neither have children or adopt that you couldn’t have children at all, you know, you would have fought for that tooth and nail and that’s the difference between just assuming or accepting that things are going inevitable and just really feeling them from your soul that they’re important to you right? And that you would feel unfulfilled if these things didn’t happen, hmm, so you’re Yeah, so just to kind of take that a little bit further, so your vision, so I can just say like for us our purpose is communications for a better world. And we articulate that as communications for more just and sustainable world and most of our work is, is focused in with some kind of social entrepreneurship or environmental impact work. So that’s how we phrase that and communications is the first part and that’s our gateway. That’s how we contribute to a more just and sustainable world. Now someone else might go about it a completely different way. Maybe they’re the CFOs that helped manage your your money so that you can donate to actually further your, your impact on the world through donations. And so that can be a different kind of purpose. Your vision is your purpose realized, which like, this is so exciting, right? So your purpose, and is supposed to be inspirational. So I talk about that as it’s your Northstar, it guides your direction, you have a purpose, you’re on your way to fulfilling it. Your vision is aspirational, most of us will never see our purpose realized. And that’s okay, it sounds a little sad after you get all excited about the vision, but then you realize it’s okay. So my vision is around a world where there is economic, social and environmental justice, meaning we live in a safe planet, we’re not destroying our earth, water, air, people are treated fairly and inclusively. And every citizen of the world is buying into that which would mean ultimately there would be some kind of peace right? Now, I will probably never live to see that world. That world may never actually happen in this in this world, right. But I can be inspired by this vision that I have. And then your mission is what you’re doing. Like for me, it’s so communications for a better world. Well, what is the communications? We provide brand, strategy and storytelling to leaders and organizations to help them create the impact that they are here and that their brand purpose exists to fulfill? Does that make sense?



Yes, totally. I love it. It’s so logical. And I love logic flows.



It shouldn’t be I mean, it gives you pause. And that’s a good thing. But it shouldn’t be illogical, right? It should make sense because it has to be something you can go back to.



Well, I can tell you, I have heard vision and mission defined and described in I don’t even know how many ways and I’ve never had it land so clearly. And in a way that makes perfect sense to me than that. So thank you. Thank you, Ray. That was excellent. All right. All right, let’s jump into PR specifically. Okay, how is PR, different from Marketing, and different from advertising? Let’s get clear on what that is.



Yeah, one of my favorite questions because people don’t really understand what PR is people think of PR as publicity done by publicist usually who exhibit some kind of bad behavior. spin doctor is not a nice term. And as it came, it came about for a reason. But a lot of people don’t realize that I’ve had clients start with me and say, Well, how are we going to spin this? And I go, Oh, no, we’re not spinning anything. We’re going to tell your story in a way that will resonate with the people that you want to serve. But spinning implies that you’re distorting the truth. And then they go, Oh, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. But it’s just become part of our vernacular. And we use terms like spin and spin doctor and even PR without really understanding what they are. So PR is actually the the the growth of mutually and this is so important, mutually beneficial relationships between an organization and its stakeholders, not at shareholders, its stakeholders. So that’s why you get internal communications. If anyone who’s listening ever worked in a big business, there’s an internal communications person or department, there is investor relations in bigger companies. And they’re the people that communicate with either, you know, the investor, communications, the printed communications, like I don’t even know, because that was never my area of focus, but like barons or, you know, Wall Street or whatever, and the shareholders in the company, so that’s investor relations, whereas public relations, itself is inclusive of internal and works with investor, but it’s really focused on what is the relationship that we have with the people outside our building, knowing that we’re starting with inside the building first? And also, how are we empowering the people that we come in contact with on a day to day regardless of where they are, so that they’re part of our brand story, because shocker, your brand is not owned by you. Your brand is owned by your stakeholders, who are the people you employ, who you better treat well, because they are your brand ambassadors, and they will believe be believed before you that your vendors, your partners, and then ultimately, the people that you want to attract and serve, right, and the people you’re currently serving, because those relationships matter. So PR is the development of communications that nurture those relationships. And guess what media relations is just one slice of that pie. So it’s different than marketing. Because marketing is focused exclusively, on potential customers. Marketing is what you put out in the world. And other than social media marketing, most of your marketing is one sided. So there’s not a mutually beneficial relationship. Because there’s no relationship through established through most of your marketing, you may be attracting people, but you don’t know who they are, you don’t know where they’re, they’re absorbing your content. With PR, you’re drawing them back in in a way that you can build those relationships with them. So an advertising is paid marketing, right? It’s in most of marketing. Well, that’s not really true to either, but there’s paid marketing, right, which is advertising, whether it’s Google ads, or social media ads, or print ads, or TV radio, you get the gist. And then there’s earned to media, which is publicity, which is part of PR, and you earn it by telling a powerful story that someone else wants to share. So theoretically, this is earned media right now. You’re interviewing me, because you’re interested in the value that I can bring to your audience, right. And then there’s shared media. That’s social, yeah. And owned media, which is your content marketing, which is also PR, because you’re telling your own stories. So anyway, that was a long winded way of explaining it. But that’s how PR is different from marketing and advertising.



Oh, that is so good. And again, I’m getting an education. And I’ve been in this entrepreneurial thing for a while, but I love the clarity with which you speak and the focus. Yeah, I really, really appreciate that you are like high level and so I love it. Well, my brain like having to really be involved and engaged to absorb and that’s what this is.



That’s a compliment from you. And I’m so appreciate.



Oh my god. Seriously, this is so so good. All right. So I want to I want to stay on storytelling for just a sec, okay. When we talk when I’ve been saying a couple times in this interview, and we’re in for what, like 1520 minutes, and I’m saying I hear a lot of stuff out there, but you’re making me think about it differently. And I like that. So I hear storytelling that that that words thrown around a lot. So way you work with your clients in the way of storytelling specifically to attract their clients to them. Okay, can you tell me kind of your approach to creating this?



Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, a lot of people say that marketing is head work, you know that it’s in your head, and I like to say branding is soul work. So when I work with a client on developing their brand story, that’s soul work, we go really deep, I’m looking for the thread that brought you to where you are now. That’s how we identify your purpose. That’s how we distinguish your values and your values. And your purpose become almost like your your recipe for who you are in the world through your business. And so I may have a sugar coated recipe, you may have a sugar cookie recipe, we may even have most of the same ingredients. But there’s going to be differences, right? I may add some cinnamon or you may add some red hots, I don’t know. But you get the idea that it’s the combination of things that makes you unique. And your purpose is what drives that. So when I do storytelling with people, we start with their brand story, which some people call your origin story. But origin story. Most places that you would read an origin story isn’t that soul story, it’s, after 23 years in corporate Sue Smith decided decided to start her own business. So she could, you know, care for her aging parents, while raising her teenagers. That’s an origin story. That’s not really a brand story, a brand story might be, from the time that Judy was a little girl, she was the one that was always thinking about how she could bring people together, to have to have a good time to share things that mattered to them, whether it was baking for the holidays, or organizing the neighborhood Easter egg hunt for the little kids. So there you go, you have a little snapshot of who Judy was as a little girl. And then as Judy grew older, those those tendencies to nurture and organized led her to do A, B and C. After several years of that Judy had a vision for her own company that could do that, to that to that now that’s a super simplistic form, we actually do a lot of work, a lot of questions, a lot of sitting with things and revisiting them to really get it right. But what I do essentially, is go back and find where the thread started and pull it so that we can create something bigger and better from it. And that really resonates with people, right? Because you’ve been like really bare and vulnerable with them. And it’s like, wow, that’s such a good story. I want to know more about this person.



Yeah, I love that. It’s it goes deeper below the surface stuff that seems to be easier to kind of grab on to in the way of story. What I found, though, and I’m curious, maybe because you and your team actually do the work this high level work this thinking work. But what I find is when I work with my clients on this whole idea of brand and creating story, it’s often difficult for them to find the extraordinariness or even, you know, something that I say, oh my gosh, that’s so extraordinary. They’re like, really? That was like no big deal. Like they don’t see it. So can you speak to that? A little bit?



Yeah, absolutely. Um, for us, so my background is, well, I shouldn’t say my background, my degrees in journalism, and I’ve always been a curious person. And what I tend to be really good at is listening, asking core questions, but listening, and then based on the answer, I know what question to answer, ask next. And so we don’t see our own genius like, most of us, don’t, someone has to tell us that thing that you do, or that you just did, like, no one does that. Did you know that’s extraordinary, just like you said, and so people need help with that. You know, I’m a brand expert. And I go to outside people to tell me what they see. This is what I’m trying to project. This is what I think I’m doing. Because when we’re sitting in the container, we can’t read the label. We don’t know what’s facing the world. We’re not objective. We’re sitting in the box.



Yeah, I love that analogy. If you’re inside the bottle, you can’t see the label. And that’s why we’re like, what was that a big deal? Oh, right. Right. Oh, my goodness. That’s so good. Thank you for that. All right. How about this? I know that you were all about, you know, business as a force for good. That is one of your mantras. I hear you talk about that all the time. What is that? What does that mean? Business is a force for good.



Yeah, business is a force for good comes. It’s it’s a saying that I picked up from V Lab, which is the b It’s B Corp certification, which you referenced. So you can be a conscious capitalist. It basically means that regardless of the label you put on conscious capitalism certified B Corp benefit corporation, or just I’m an entrepreneur, who cares about things. You can use your business as a force for good And the way that you think about that is typically leaders who want to use their business as a force for good kind of bucks. The Milton, I think that’s his name, Milton Friedman model of the 1970s, where the core purpose of business is shareholder value. And we say, No, it’s not, because money for money sake, is not purposeful. Instead, we prioritize, and anyone can do this. We prioritize stakeholder value over shareholder value, do we want to make money? Heck, yeah, because the more money we make, the more good we can do hence prosper for purpose, the whole idea behind it. So we look at a triple bottom line, people planet, and profit. And it’s like a three legged stool, if I have profit, but I’m not taking care of my people. That stool is not steady. If I have profit, but I’m contributing excessively to waste or not caring for the land that I’m on the community that I’m in, then it’s a two legged stool again. And so when we can bring that all together, we are we’re living a and promoting a balanced business. So business for good takes a little bit higher than that. Because that it also means the intent of our business is to make a positive impact that I don’t really think people go into starting a business for the money. I think they start with this idea that they want to provide something that they see missing this transformation that they feel called to bring to the world. But we just were so busy doing, we don’t take the time to think, you know, if I could figure that out and articulate it, I would actually attract the people I want to work with.



Wow, that’s so poignant. And it’s true, because I’ve never met a woman, no matter if she’s just starting out. Or if she’s making millions every year, truly every single woman that I’ve ever spoken to, in business has said, I didn’t get in this for the money. I got in this to make a difference. And isn’t that a beautiful thing? I don’t know if all men are like that, but



I’ve never been there. I don’t think men even the men that are and I bet a lot of them are but they just, you know, men, I think this is changing. But, you know, generationally, and just the way that men and women were raised was very different. But I also think, you know, you have people that specialize in energy. And the reality is that feminine energy and male energy are very different. It doesn’t mean men don’t care about making an impact, but they they may just assume that they’ll do it in a way that is separate from their business. But I know plenty of men, leading certified B corpse from Ben and Jerry’s to Patagonia, and many, many other companies Warby Parker, that were founded by men that wanted to have a positive impact. And the three companies I just mentioned, are all certified B corpse. So there are men out there they are using their business as a force for good.



You know, I have to shout out Warby Parker. That’s the eyeglass place right? Yeah, they’re their marketing is phenomenal. Just I love their whole thing, like revolutionary, you know, yeah. Take out a mortgage to afford a pair of glasses. Sounds good. All right. Well, we’re running out of time. I want to ask you one more question. Okay. Okay. We talked a lot about purpose. But I want to make sure there isn’t something about purpose that we didn’t get to specifically, why are we hearing so much about it these days? And how can our businesses use purpose to be even more successful? I don’t know if there’s anything else that we could address in that regard?



Yeah. So purpose is taking hold because people are fed up with business as usual. And they’ve been fed up for about let’s see my businesses in its 10th year, and I heard about purpose, probably a lot starting in 2015. So before the pandemic before, a lot of the things that have happened since then, people are just fed up with business as usual. So you’re thinking people are talking about a purpose beyond profit. And so that’s why and then everybody was latching on to the purpose part of that thinking, Well, what is that purpose beyond profit? So I think that we’re in a paradigm shift, and it’s going to be a purpose paradigm and you’re going to see more companies trying to articulate their purpose. If you do it wrong, people will call you out. And you see people doing that. You see big companies that have put on the perp that have jumped on the purpose bandwagon, but not been authentic about it. And you know, consumers are Smart and they can sense fraud a mile away. Now, they’re always rabble rouser. So if somebody is out there and they’re trying to be sincere, and they have, you know, people I’ve, I’m blanking on what you call them, but they’re, you know, they’re just people that are just out there looking for places to make bad comments or leave bad reviews. You just have to ignore them and move on. If you know your purpose is authentic, you will attract people who are values aligned with you. So articulating your purpose and doing the soul work to think what is the change that I seek that I’m trying to make, and being able to articulate that and tie your marketing back into that. This is another way that we help people do X, Y, and Z, just a subtle reminder, you’re going to see your marketing shift and become easier. And you’re going to see that you’re attracting the clients and customers that you want to be working with.



Okay, that I can’t let you go without a real life example or like an example example. So you said, there’s going to be when we get this right in the way of purpose that is authentic, that that’s we got to weave that aspect in to make our marketing easier. So can we make that real, because I tend to be a visual person. And so an example would would help you. But if I’m not seeing it, hearing it very clearly would help.



Yeah, so I can use prosper as an example. So we did a campaign a couple of years ago for 1% for the planet, which is a nonprofit. And it was about individual investing in the environment. And so we put together a campaign that was launched in the state of Ohio as a test market. And it was really cool. And it showed how your investments made a difference. So they were articulating their purpose that they were bringing in investors who could choose where they wanted to put their 1% of profits each year to work in the environment. And now they were opening up to individual investors. So I’m in Ohio, I can choose where my investment goes. And for for them for 1%. For the planet, it was another way, we’re empowering people to protect the you know, the waters land and air that they love, because you were investing close to home. So companies might choose to put a water well in a third world country, but individuals tend to invest closer to home. So I want to invest in my park, I want to invest in my river, things like that. And then you go the company or the organization can go back and talk about that. Does that make sense? Is that kind of does. But



that kind of went over my head only because i i When you said investors, my eyes glaze over. So wait, let’s let’s give you an example. How about how about, you know, and it’s later in the day as?



Well, I can try to do? Yeah, no, no, it’s okay. So we’ve communications, right. And so what, what I might say, is say that I know you and I do some similar things. But you know, we can’t read our own labels. So say you come to me and you’re like Lorraine, I really want you to tell my purpose story. And I really want to bring my faith to the forefront. And I mean, not that you don’t already do, but we’re just for the sake of illustration. So I’m going to work with you. And we’re going to bring that forward. And then I’m going to say, you know, as a maybe a case study or a reference, it was so wonderful working with Judy, and being able to our chick help her articulate where her faith, you know, has come from in leading it. And this is what this is an example of prosper, being able to use storytelling to further people’s own purpose in the world. Because now that you are out there, and I would articulate this better, but again, it’s like five o’clock in the afternoon. So maybe I have to come back with another one. But anyway, this is another example of how we have how we use storytelling or PR. Sometimes I say we do PR is a force for good storytelling is a force for good, right? So furthering the Lord’s mission on earth is what you you’re doing and we’re helping you fulfill that by being that outside that container guide for you so that we can take your genius and help you articulate that so you can fulfill your business’s purpose,



huh, got it. That was great. That was something I get like my brain. Okay, good.



I’m thinking am I gonna listen to this when it’s live and go oh, my gosh, what was I talking about there?



No, no. No, that was excellent. Thank you for that. Alright, so we’re running out of time, before I get to this amazing freebie that you’re offering our audience, is there anything on your heart that we haven’t yet spoken about in your world that you really want to get out, you’ve dropped so many good nuggets already. You’re welcome.



I would just encourage your encourage people, your listeners, not to be afraid to be vulnerable. And that doesn’t mean you know, there’s a saying that you don’t air your injuries, when you know when they’re still there. You wait until they’re healed. And I’m not even necessarily talking about that. But a lot of us, myself included, spent a lot of time thinking, if I share this, what will people think of me? And we have to get past that, because that is a human resistance. So I would say what, you know, what happens if you don’t get that message to the people who need to hear it? That’s the better question. So just get out of your own way and do the work and you will be amazed at what is possible. Ah, I



love that. What if you don’t get that message out? That’s got to be what drives us that the Wow, that really hit home. I love it. Alright, so you are gracious enough to offer your PR guide ebook. What is our and how can it help your business? Tell us about it?



Yeah, it’s just a really good overview for people that think they know what PR is, but they’re like, oh, that’s something I’ll get to five years down the road when I can hire someone. No, you can do PR right now, for your business, just understand it first. Don’t buy a $10 template, just you know, just get a little bit of comprehension. And we have a free guide to help get you there. And then from there, there’s all kinds of resources, we’re building more free resources on our site right now. So we’ll have those as well. But I just think PR is just a good first resource for people because there’s there’s so much that you can learn from that



eautiful and I’ll have the link to the show notes. But where would you like the ladies listening to find you would you prefer on social or to your website? Or both?



Um, yeah, prosper for purpose. Calm is where you can get the freebie you’ll get a little pop up as you go there. You can get that and you can find me on LinkedIn. I’m probably most often there at Lorain, sugared.



Okay, awesome. And that was the right pronunciation. Sorry, I butchered your name.



It’s not the German pronunciation so don’t feel bad. It’s okay. We Americanized it when you know my dad did and so it sugared it’s supposed to be sharp. So anyway, I answered anything as long as I understand that it’s supposed to be my last.



I mean, you will Arang Thank you. This was so much fun. And not only fun, but so value pack. So thank you, sister for sharing.



Oh my gosh, my pleasure. Thank you.



Alright, ladies, thank you for listening. And if you’ve enjoyed this episode, and I’m sure you have, please take a moment right now pause. And especially if you’re on iTunes, would you please leave us a rating and review so that we further expand beyond our 30 countries. I want to get to 40 countries soon, we’re about to hit 65,000 downloads, I want to get to 100,000 this year. So thank you again for sharing it out. And I would encourage you to go to the podcasts page of our website, Judy Scroll down a bit, and you will be able to leave me a voice message and you can say I love the rain on your show. But I have this question and guess what? We’re going to be starting to post your voice notes left on that page here. Okay, so you can leave a question, leave your feedback, whatever you like, Hey, you could even you know, pitch yourself that’s the place to go Judy Weber co slash podcast. Thank you again the ray Wah Thank you ladies and we will see you next time.


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