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Ep 246 Transcript


Alright ladies, welcome to this episode of The joyful scaling podcast. Listen, if you experience drama, when it comes to sales, this episode is for you. Because my guest today loves helping women like you get out of your head when it comes to selling and to be unapologetic about sales. So you know, she’s my kind of girl. And why do we do this so that you can share your amazing offers in a powerful and authentic way so you can impact more lives. I want you to meet Amanda Edwards. She’s the creator of the imperfectly ambitious podcast that you have to listen to write that down in perfectly ambitious, okay. She is a business mentor who specializes in leadership based messaging and sales. Oh, it’s gonna be so good. She helps her clients communicate their message in a way that stands out from the noise and connects with their ideal clients at a much deeper level. She has 15 years experience leading accounts and sales strategy for Fortune 100 companies where she learned Listen, ladies, these are huge lessons that you’re going to you’re going to understand what this means by the end of it, she’s learned that there is not a one size fits all recipe for success. And there is no magic script, Amanda’s on mission to bring human connection back to business and leadership into the sales process. Let’s welcome Amanda to the show. Hi, Judy,



thank you so much for having me. I love this. And I’m so excited to chat with you about it.



Thank you, this is gonna be so good, because sales is no matter how much I talk about it, and how much you talk about this has been so ingrained in us, we have to totally reframe our mind. So we’re gonna get to that. But first, I’d love you to give our audience a snapshot of your background.



Yeah, absolutely. So like you said, you know, I’ve been in corporate sales for over 15 years. And sales in general is very entrepreneurial. And so when I say corporate sales, it’s probably not what you’re thinking I was very have been very entrepreneurial, and how I go about creating relationships. And then getting business, right, like, what makes sense for me? How is how is my messaging? How do I conduct my sales conversations, what’s my own method in order to bring in the business and I’ve learned, I just saw that there was such a different way. And I think when I first started in my career, I was looking at my colleagues who were maybe more technical than I was or who had their process that they followed, or whatever it was, and I thought, well, I better start doing that, or I should try to fit myself into that box too. And when I realized that the very thing, the very reason why I was hired in the first place, the very reason for my success, was not trying to do what my colleagues were doing, it was actually following more of what I was already good at, and what I felt strongly about and passionately about and had conviction about. When I followed that, then everything changed. And so through my career, and through the quote, unquote, success that I have seen in sales, I have a heart for women in business. Because I grew up so to speak in a career that was like, I don’t know what that is 93% Men, until recently, that’s changed over the past few years, but and very few women in my in my role. And so I have this heart for women in business. And I know that there can be such a better way than what you’re taught in sales trainings than what you see. And pretty much like you’re always taught a process or you’re always taught these certain things that you have to be included in your, in your sales conversations or in the process. And I just that led me to starting imperfectly ambitious was really around not only the is fundamentally like discovering what it is and who you are, and what you know that you’re good at what you have a passion for what you have this calling to do, and put yourself out in the world in bigger ways in order to do that. But for me, my business business, mentorship, and the things that I feel so strongly about is helping women to do that put themselves out there sell what they have to offer, sell that service, or that product or your ideas in order to create the impact that you know you can but you hide so often behind this wall. And you don’t put yourself out there out of this fear or this mindset that you have around sales or thinking that you have to have this perfect process in order to be successful. So then you just kind of dilute yourself, you hide behind this wall, and you know that you’re capable of so much more.



Wow, that is a mouthful. And I just want to highlight some of the last things you said because I think it really hits home. Too many women are hiding. And part of that is I feel like we need to be humble like we might look at a guy or even a too bold woman who’s who approaches business in a way that doesn’t feel good. She’s She’s arrogant. She’s in it for herself, you know. And so when we think that that looks like success, then we go the other way we run like we hide. And then I love what you said about diluting. God made each of us with that unique blend of what I call extraordinariness. And we just dilute it when we say, Oh, well, you know, I’m being taught XY and Z. So I can’t really do what I want to do, because I feel like I’ve got to follow their methodology. So wow, this is



good. Thank you. I know, I feel so strongly about that, because there isn’t a one size fits all. And I think we want we almost want that we want somebody to tell us how we want somebody to give us that exact strategy, because if it doesn’t work, it’s the strategy. That didn’t work.



Yeah. Oh, wow, that’s so good. So then you’re saying if it doesn’t work, we can just say, Well, that didn’t work. It’s not like me, it almost gives you an excuse.



You’re looking externally for the next strategy and the next strategy for somebody to tell you exactly how to do it instead of trusting yourself. trusting your gut. And that is at the foundation of all of this.



Amen. Oh, gosh, okay, we’re going to we’re going to dive into second and how to reframe the mind around sales. But I really want to, I really want to emphasize on that, but you just said is powerful. Gosh, all right. I’m just, I’m just, I’m just gelling?



It’s the start, yeah, you’re looking for the strategy for somebody to tell you how to do it for somebody to give you the magical formula that is going to fix everything, or get you anything you could have hoped for. And when that doesn’t work, then the strategies the problem, and do you know



why? In my experience, the deeper I go in mindset, which I resisted it for years and years. Yep, our human mind, tries to keep us safe. And it’s almost like when presented with something new, like sales is so often our knee jerk reaction of our brain that a jerk reaction of our brain is to worry about what it can’t do. Like, like, what I don’t know. And that’s why we’re constantly a lot of drama around the how, when really, we’re smart ladies, we know how we like to be sold to and how we don’t like to be sold to. So like you say, go like pen and paper with your own brain and figure it out and stop worrying about what some guru tells you to do. Or even your manager because I know I was you I was in sales most of my life. And when I broke free and like, that doesn’t sound good. I’m not going to use those words coulda it. What’s better?



Absolutely. Because you have to feel aligned, you have there’s an transfer of energy that happens. And I’m sorry, that can sound woowoo that but it’s so true. Like you can feel when somebody has conviction. And you can feel when somebody doesn’t always say you cannot fake conviction. So then how do you get more conviction? And that’s a lot of this stuff. Right? That’s so so



good. So ladies, trust yourself. God gave you intuition. Let me give you a quick story, then we’re gonna dive in. Yeah. My first year as a lawyer, I remember sitting in a room, I’m a first year PA, what do I know? But I’m sitting in this room around these amazing partners, and it was a corporate transactional type situation. And I remember just sitting there and they somebody would say something. And I had a thought like, like something I wanted to add. But I held back. Don’t you know, another man mentioned it and there was a girl accolades, accolades. I didn’t trust myself enough to open my mouth. And that happened in that one meeting, I think two or three times. But still, it took me years to have the guts to say, Okay, I’m gonna say this, you know, so I think it’s a similar kind of my talk about that. I love your approach to sales, because it’s all about prioritizing human connection. So how can our listeners reframe their mind around sales, if even uttering the word makes them feel? Yeah,



yeah, let’s, let’s think about it. Let’s back it up to say, like, it’s people over process, that’s the whole human connection piece, you are talking to a person on the other end, let’s think about it around like sales. So often people think of sales and they think of it as a transaction. I’m going to ask you for money, and then you give me money, and that feels icky. And I don’t want to have to do that. I don’t have to ask you for money. say that’s an example. You’re thinking of that as a transaction. Let’s back it up. Let’s figure out how can we lead? How can we lead this person and serve this person in a way that could help them achieve a transformation? Let’s take away the transaction. What transformation can you help them achieve through your service through your products through your offering, through this perception shift? You’re selling ideas all the time? You don’t have to be selling for money, right? It doesn’t have to be $1 But you’re selling ideas. You’re planting seeds. In a way, again, as long as you’re doing this, like right now I’ve can feel my energy I am, because I believe so strongly in what I’m saying. So you can, if you believe at the heart of what you’re doing of what you can provide of the transformation, you can help somebody guide guide, guide them through, then you are you’re focusing on them not on you, instead of thinking like, I have to ask them to pay me $1,000, I have to ask them to pay me $20,000. What are you providing to them that is going to allow them to achieve some sort of transformation, stop thinking of it by way of a transaction, right? And if you can believe so strongly, that what you’re doing aligns with your values, it aligns with what you’re saying, you know, that you’re going to, you’re delivering what you’re promising all of these things, you have that belief in all of it. Now, you’re helping somebody right? You’re showing them how the next step that they can take in their journey.



Yes, yes. And I think when you said that it sounds kind of woowoo I get that, because I think there’s an element to this, that you have to experience stuff. Yeah. Like if you’ve never, if you’ve never been in that power, first powerful sales conversation, whether it’s live, or over the phone, or zoom or whatever, and you didn’t experience this conviction and going all in, in service, it’ll, it’ll kind of sort of feel like words, and you won’t be able to get it 1,000%. But trust us, and I have a quick thing, you said that you said, you know, too many women are thinking, I have to ask them for 1000 months, 10,000 months, whatever it is, instead, you’re saying reframe it to say, I get to invite them in yes to whatever the container or whatever the product, I get them to experience this. And in exchange for only, I don’t care if it’s only $100,000, whatever that dollar amount is in exchange for that, they’re gonna get so much more. And it’s when you can have confidence that in fact, what they’re getting is way more than what they’re paying, I think that helps to



Yeah, it’s so true. And I think as we put so much pressure on ourselves to have this perfect. That’s the one thing else, like this perfect script, or this perfect conversation. And quite frankly, like every conversation you’re going to have is different. Take the pressure off of yourself and listen, what are you hearing? How can you then in turn, you don’t have to know all the answers. You don’t have to be the end all be all, be transparent. Be honest about what your offer your product or service provides and what it doesn’t. And what’s in your your wheelhouse. What isn’t, and that’s such a freeing conversation that people have so much respect for, you will gain so much respect by your transparency, working in integrity. And at the end of the day, if it’s not the right fit, don’t force it, don’t try to force it into this box. If you’re not the right fit, you know what they’re gonna walk away thinking, wow, you don’t have interactions like that every day. She was super transparent. She was taking this very much leadership approach. And you know what, it’s not the right fit for me. But I know somebody who would be it would be a great fit for instead of leaving this kind of high pressure unnecessary trying to fit everybody into this box sales approach that that’s what leaves people with a bad taste in their mouth. Right. And we all know it goes back to trusting your gut that we know when that’s happening to us. It feels icky. We don’t like it. We roll our eyes. Don’t do the same things. Right. Like, just realize you’re talking to a human have a conversation what feels like the next right conversation to have. What else can you help them with? You know?



Yeah, for sure. I love that. It’s like, it’s like it’s not sold to they don’t want to feel sold to they want to feel loved on. Yeah. So actively listen, then we’re in a place to not worry about oh, gosh, here on my on my transcript. Yeah. Question. Yeah. are listening. And you’re like, Huh, well, that’s an interesting thought. Let’s explore that for a moment. And we can and that is when you have conversations, as you said, that really hit with the heart. Yes, they see that you care.



That’s the if you can, at the end of the day, approach your conversations, approach your interactions with keeping their best interest at heart, keep their best interest in the forefront. And as long as that best interest aligns with you, your company, what it is that you’re doing, that will help guide your conversation, but keep their best interest at heart and then at the end of the day, whatever happens, you can feel good about your interactions with them. And I do think it can be hard at first I think people think that they have to put on sometimes more of a show or that again, what they’re saying has to be Perfect work just to be transparent. Be human, because that is what people are craving.



They are craving it, especially after the pandemic. Yeah, I mean, and I think it’s important to say like to keep in mind in this whole idea of reframing the mindset that the goal of a sales conversation is not a yes, like, for me until I get on the phone with someone, they could look great online. But if they are not, you know, passing all of my client filters, then I really won’t know that until I talk to them. So the goal is really on the call, getting to know them, as you said, serving them, and then helping them come to a decision. And you come from decision. Yes,



yes, that’s key understanding, that’s a good fit for both of you. Because that’s ultimately and if they’re not a good fit for you, then you are you’re investing your time and your energy and your focus in a client, that isn’t a right fit when you’re not, instead of protecting those clients who are, right. And so that’s a key thing too. And a mindset kind of reframe is, the more that you are giving and forcing something that isn’t a right fit, your energy is being taken from those who are



Oh, that’s so good. Keeping your best clients top of mind, then even above person you’re talking to wow, that is so good.



That absolutely, because of those clients, your best clients are. I mean, though, they’re gold. I mean, those are the ones they’re going to eat, they’re going to come back, they’re gonna refer you, they’re going to that’s like that’s such a partnership there. You don’t want to sacrifice that.



Yeah, love. It’s so good. It’s so good. So yeah, for me, and I want to talk about this, then we’re going to move on to messaging a little bit. But trust, ladies, that’s the goal on the sales conversation. If you don’t establish trust, they will never buy period. And think about something that you may have purchased, that you didn’t really need. But you had this great relationship, it is the beginning of a relationship and then feel that and you establish the trust and how is trust established because you they exude confidence. That is you, the salesperson, you exude confidence, you display your competence, and and your sincere, caring, and then all of a sudden trust is established. And there so it’s much easier. Yes.



Yeah. And you do what you say you’re going to do? Hmm, reliably? You know, bottom line, like if you show up and present yourself a certain way, say that you’re going to do this say that this is what you stand for. And if they have any indication that that’s not true, then that trust immediately it’s just subconscious. It just starts to go wall starts to get put up.



Mm hmm. For sure. For sure. All right. Messaging is a critical piece in the whole sales process. So how can our messaging help to connect with our best clients on a deeper level?



Mm hmm. Yeah, I love this. Because messaging is so critical. It’s what starts to build that trust, it’s what starts to create that overall understanding of who you are, what you’re about, and how you can help somebody. So your messaging again, is with them in mind, with your client in mind and thinking about, they’re on this journey, right. And I think sometimes we so often assume that wherever we are our area of expertise, that our clients have that same level, I mean, we know that they don’t, but we were not talking in that way. Like you have to meet them where they are now. So have an understanding of that. And then the words you use that ideas and the seeds that you start to plant because again, I always say you have to sell ideas. First, you have to sell ideas first, depending on where they are on their journey in order to make sure that they’re ready for what it is that you’re ultimately going to sell them in your program or your service or your offering.



Okay, I’d love to go to an example there. Because I think for me, even I see what you’re saying, but I want to really solidify this for the listeners. So when you’re saying sell ideas first, I’m thinking for well, for example, for what you and I do, we need to as we talk to the ladies, help them understand what Yeah, possibilities are right. Is that belief? Is that kind of a good example of that?



Well, I’m going to back up because I was actually this was somebody in one of my programs who she is amazing. And she’s a like she’s an functional medicine. Right? And a lot of her like her ideal clients are starting on their journey from the standpoint of they might not know right now, like what say if we look at gut health, for example, like what SIBO is or what irritable bowel is, you know, all of these things and the right way to treat them in a way that can look at your body holistically but but they know that they are always tired, and they are bloated and at the end of the day, they just have No energy, and they are tired of going to the doctor and being listened to for 30 seconds and being given the next medication. And it just seems like they’re hopeless. So they don’t you have to meet them there and use their language around like, Are you constantly just tired and sick up? Like you have to, you have to actually go to what they’re thinking? Are you sick of going to the doctor and being listened to? Every you know, and then you start to guide them down the path? They don’t know, like, Are you struggling with whatever medical term they don’t know that yet, right? And how to care for that in a more holistic way. And her example, in my case was sales so many times and when I’m teaching or talking about these concepts, it is trying to make somebody aware on the front end, that you don’t have to be tied to a script, that it’s not about the process. It’s about the people over the process, and you start to plant these seeds and make somebody realized, Oh, hmm, I don’t have to fit myself into the box, I don’t have to just abide by the script. But then I can start to show them more and more around. It’s about leadership. It’s about influence. It’s about transformation. But if I started there, they’d say, what are these concepts? What is that you have to kind of back it up, it’s for the person who right now is struggling, hiding behind scripts and processes and getting frustrated, because they just want somebody to give them the strategy to sales. You know, that’s kind of a long rambling, like trying to just think of a couple examples. But that’s what I mean. No, that’s



good. And I think what you’ve just said, really is a prime example of going deeper. Because it’s like, it’s like, the woman is not going to bed, feeling bad saying, Oh, I wish my irritable bowel syndrome, or use the words like, yeah, this just like, help me be tired all the time. tired to go to the doctor? And that’s right, Miss me. And I’m sick of it. And



yeah, she doesn’t know all the things that could be at play there. And all the solutions available to her to speak of it yet.



Wow, that’s so good. So so how do you work with your clients to make sales actually fun? Like, like, how long do you think it takes to kind of know your ideal client in this deep, intimate way so that you don’t dread sales conversation? So you’re the forward to them and say, Wow, I get to talk to this person today and find out more?



And I think it really like the the famous answer, it depends. I think it does depend. And I think there’s, it’s kind of twofold, I think you do have to know who you’re talking to, I think you have to be very clear, even outside of that, like, just be so confident in what it is you’re doing the event, even if it’s like, you’re confident in your product, and your service and your offering. But even if you’re so confident in your approach, you’re so confident that you are so clear on your values, and that you work in alignment with your values, you have to have something that gives you that conviction and that energy. And I think when you show up with that, show up with just the first conversation in mind, and listen to them more than you talk, ask them questions, ask them what they’re struggling with, ask them, what what do they will just wish were possible when it came to your area and to see what they say. And then from there, you can start to pick out areas where you know, you can really help or where you have this, this perfect angle for them. And so I think we go off, we so often do try to formulate this conversation in our mind. And we’re thinking of the next thing we’re going to say when somebody is talking. And then you’re kind of doing that we’re deer in the headlights look, we’re you’re looking over the shoulder, and they’re looking at you snapping their fingers like Hello, can you hear me? Because people see that? People sense that and so when we can actually truly and it’s it is difficult, like it takes a while of like trying to really practice this and do it but it’s listening. And that’s this kind of freeing in a way because you’re not there’s no pressure on what to say next listen and then really pick out of what they’re saying. How pick out something that you know you can help with or pick out like the next best question to ask and gather some of that information so that you can go back to them with a real thoughtful response or proposal or whatever it is how you can work together.



Yeah, that is so good. A couple of notes that I had I I’m I’m an avid note taker, as you’re right. I love it. You are reading up some ideas. And I don’t know that I ever thought this before. But first thing when all we do is follow the script and we’re like, Ooh, what’s the next question? And I when I was a trial attorney doing depositions in the beginning I was like that question wrong wrong wrong. Because if you’re not listening, then then the question you’re asking isn’t getting anywhere like like you’re just doing superficial stuff and you’re not going deep number one, so you’re not getting the information you really need to understand what they need and how you might help if at all, but also you’re not connecting with them. They’re like, Oh, yeah, yeah, it’s the salesperson.



Right, exactly. And that connection piece is huge. And when you don’t ask the question, there can be so much Missed. Missed opportunity. If you’re following a script like you might have, you might be sitting on this massive opportunity, but it’s, it’s over here in this lane, and you’re staying in this thing, just focused on checking the boxes. When realizing that’s what it comes down to is like, you’re talking to a human, talk to them to be real. You’re an expert in what you do trust that you’re an expert. You don’t have to follow a script. You can ask questions, you can figure out what’s the next best step? Is it another conversation? Is it an invite to one of your programs? Is it a referral to a colleague? I don’t know. But be open to not knowing when you enter that first conversation?



Yeah, it makes it kind of a fun challenge. Yeah. What what I find when you’re when you’re when you’re making these deeper level connections that we’re talking about, what I found is that you really hit their heart, and you might bring someone to tears, because you’ve gone so deep in your questioning out of love, yeah, that you’ve uncovered something that they might have buried and never even known.



Mm hmm. So true. So, so true. And that connection level? That is, I mean, that’s I always say like, I love the 8020 rule. And by that rule, like 20% of people do that 80% Don’t, I think it’s even I think it’s even fewer that connection level when you can do that. And you can genuinely do that at an authentic level. That’s the difference maker. And again, all the while you’re truly looking out for their best interest. You’re doing what you say, reliably. I mean, those those are your clients for life.



Yeah, yeah. Because when you ask the questions, no one else is asking. All of a sudden you stand out. And even if you get a no on the call, you know, all those questions, those conversations are gold. Absolutely. If you’re talking with a person who was potentially a great fit, as far as you know, fitting within your demographic, and what you’re really looking for, you’re walking away if you’re listening, with market research, that is invaluable.



Totally agree. Yeah, absolutely. And you learn from all of it. And then like you said, that market research goes into either your next offering or it helps you to build out your messaging thoughtfully with them in mind and meeting them where they’re at, you know, the whole it starts that whole circle.



Love it. Okay, well, before we get to an amazing opportunity, that a free opportunity that you’re opening up to our audience, is there anything we didn’t touch on, that you have on your heart right now you want to make sure you get out



for I think I just want you to remember that when you talk about sales. It’s that word that people you can print, or you can try to get away from it. But you have so much to put out into the world. You’re listening to this podcast for a reason, you know, that you have something you need to do. And all this is about is unapologetically putting yourself out there in a way that’s actually serving others. It’s how you’re getting yourself out into the world, it’s how you’re making the impact that you know you want to make. And by selling by having these conversations by serving, by creating, helping to create these transformations, that’s part of the process. And when you can start to do that you can start to implement some of these shifts, then it becomes exciting and energizing instead of draining. And so I that’s just what I want for you is to lean into what you’re supposed to do. The selling piece is a part of that that helps to get your impact in front of more people.



Beautifully said beautifully said Well, I understand you have a free messaging masterclass available.



Absolutely. It kind of, it’s a deep dive it’s like a 30 minute masterclass that helps you to create messaging that connects at that deeper level that stands out from you know, 80% of what you see out there and how you start to really connect with those, the people that need to see what you have to offer and that you know you can make more impact for so that you can find at imperfectly forward slash magnetize and you just sign up there and it gets delivered, delivered right to you.



Beautiful thank you for that. I’m gonna make sure to put that in the show notes. Where can our ladies find you online? Like where’s the best place? Is it your website or somewhere else?



Yeah, I would say go I’m pretty active on Instagram. You can go I do kind of some mini in my stories, a lot little mini trainings. You can find me at imperfectly underscore ambitious on Instagram, or hanging out on my podcast. Come listen to Judy’s episode. She was on the podcast.



I love your idea. Love



your podcast, sturdy imperfectly ambitious podcast, and then imperfectly Awesome.



Well, Amanda, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Such a joy. Just really appreciate it.



Oh god, I love what you’re doing. It was an honor to be on your show. Thank you so much.



Awesome. You’re so welcome. Ladies, thank you for listening. And if you have not yet left a rating and review, please pause and do that right now. It means the world to me. And if you go to the podcast page of my website, Judy Scroll down a bit. There is an opportunity for you to do a voice note for me. Leave some feedback, leave a comment, leave a question. I want to start I had received about five or six I want more so that I could start every episode answering your question or featuring you on the show. So go to Judy Weber Judy Weber co slash podcast. Thank you again for listening and we will see you next time.


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